The real Gates of Hell – sculpture/door by Rodin
Last night in a “casual” “fun” weeknight race, a young sailor rounded outside both leeward gates.
The race committee just chucked the youngster from the race – doing so without a hearing. It can only be presumed the RC scored him as a DNF because he rounded outside both gates, rather than between them. No competitor protested the young sailor.
The notion of “casual” and “fun” races is always interesting – but it also depends on who is defining “casual” and “fun”.
In this particular series, there seems to be no printed NOR’s or SI’s. Try to find that info on the club website – it’s not there….well, there’s nothing much about anything on that particular club website either.
So, absent printed, or digital, forms of the documents that are suppose to lay out the terms of competition, how is a young sailor (or any sailor?) suppose to know exactly the course designation? There is nothing in the Racing Rules of Sailing that specify that when leeward gates are used, you are required to pass between them.
While the young sailor may have been wrong – the RC was definitely wrong to just score him as a DNF. This is a clear violation of Rule 63.1 “A boat or competitor shall not be penalized without a protest hearing, except as provided in rules 30.2, 30.3, 30.3, 67, 69, A5 or P2.” None of these rules apply in this particular case.
In my opinion, this matter should be brought before the club protest committee. The Race Committee should lose, because no protest form was filed in a timely manner, and given the absence of written and available NOR’s and SI’s, the default filing time limit is designated under rule 61.3, which is two hours. As there was no protest form filed, then there can be no hearing, and the Protest Committee should reinstate the young sailor with his recorded finish position in the race in which he was incorrectly scored DNF.
Protest hearings are no fun – but neither is a race that is run in an arbitrary manner.
And we wonder why teenagers want to play lacrosse and soccer with their peer group, rather than compete in sailing….
Maybe those who run races in this manner ought to spend some time gazing on Rodin’s other major work and consider doing as does this subject….think about whether you are running races that lead to the Gates of Hell, or the Gates of Fun.
“The Thinker” – by Rodin
July 26, 2006 at 12:07 pm
You raise a good point and are correct, I believe, in your interpretation of how the Racing Rules of Sailing would strictly apply in this case. But I wonder if the young sailor would really appreciate being hauled in front of a quasi-judicial protest committee when he thought he was just entering a casual fun race.
Would it not be better if someone from the race committee had approached the youngster after the race in a friendly manner, pointed out the correct way to sail a leeward gate, and gently suggested that he ought to retire from the race and be scored RAF because of the mistake? Or even better if one of his fellow competitors had told him about how to sail the gate properly during the race (which advice would be legal under rule 41)?
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not against applying the rules properly or against holding protest meetings. It’s just that the strict application of the rules doesn’t always sit well with some folk’s interpretation of “casual” and “fun”.
July 26, 2006 at 1:39 pm
The first time I was in a casual and fun tuesday night race on a Laser, I sailed right through the fleet on port tack and was nto paying attention to where I was going. I wasnt hauled to the protest room or yelled at on the race course, everyone understood that I screwed up and it was my first time driving in a race in years and I was rusty. After the race, one of the other racers did come up to me and inform me of my mistake and told me that had I finished other than last, it would be the prudent thing to retire. After talking my mistake over, I realized what I did and decided to pay better attention to the other boats on the race course.
July 26, 2006 at 9:19 pm
I teach lots of kids how to race sailboats every year and watch some of them get scared off by the “complex rules” and mean spirited enforcement of them. We need to have rules to keep race courses from turning into bumper boat courses but we need to keep the larger picture in mind. This kid didn’t hit anyone or cause anyone else to loose a place at the finish line – leave him alone and teach him the right way to do it while he tells his stories of fun on the race course. At a time when we need more new sailors coming into the sport, I agree the the RC was out of line even if there was a rule that allowed them to DNF him.
July 26, 2006 at 9:21 pm
I agree with the comments from Tillerman and Matt Franzek: A fun a casual race deserves a fun an casual response to a mistake. A competetor providing a little help on the course, or a simple and clear discussion after the race from a competetor or Race Committee seems appropriate. Technically a protest is required, but absent clear sailing instuctions, it would be a mess, and it sure seems no one likes the room. So — talk it out and have a good time about it.
July 26, 2006 at 9:37 pm
Hi
as an angryparent -you are right. To the race committee there are strict rules for yachting, much akin to Golf – try taking on Tiger Woods;some cover girls /Boys or Both. The USA bound edition of yachting rules is precise and I reccomend you appraise the yachting Committee of this. I like many wish to encourage Youth capable sailors do you have a solution?
keep this dialogue alive as very relevant
July 26, 2006 at 9:40 pm
was the kid even wrong? the gate you are not rounding is not a mark of the course, and he did round one gate in the correct direction… absent a NOR/SIs to the contrary, I think he didn’t break any rules
July 26, 2006 at 10:20 pm
I avoid so-called casual and fun races like the plague. At best they are sloppy (and not fun) and at worst they are dangerous.
The race committee owes it to the sailors – whatever the level of racing – to be knowledgable and competent. They failed. They also ahave a duty to educate. They failed again.
If it is a “fun” race, why is anyone keeping score?
July 27, 2006 at 8:59 am
Bill’s question is an interesting one. If you round both buoys in a gate have you sailed the course or not? After all you have rounded one buoy the correct way and have in fact sailed a longer course than someone sailing through the gate. Is the “other” buoy a mark of the course?
I’m sure Pete “leeward gate” Huston knows the answer but IMHO, assuming that the leeward gate is defined in the normal way in the SIs, it is wrong to round both buoys. Both buoys of the gate are marks of the course and must be left on the correct side by sailing through the gate and rounding one of the buoys.
As I recall a certain leading US sailor was DSQ’d for just this error at the Laser US Nationals in 2005. But of course the race committee did have SIs and did handle the issue the correct way under the RRS.
Of course Bill is also right in saying that in the absence of written SIs you could argue that the course can be anything you choose.
July 27, 2006 at 9:42 am
I could not disagree with you more. We have a casual race every thursday at our club and we have no rules posted. There are serious people and not so serious and downright beginners. I race and sometimes do committee. We make up rules as we go. We have never had a protest although there is plenty to protest. How bout the fact that we will never call someone over that obviously does not know what they are doing. Heck we sometimes call some of the better people over to keep the slower boats close. When we score we give extra points for condtion of boat so that if a family digs a boat out of the back yard and sails they have a chance to win after the arbitrary rulings by the race committee. This event has gone on for several summers now and every now and then the real hot shot asks how did she beat me about a 7 year old kid using a beat up boat. We just laugh. He shows up next week and so does the little girl.
I will say that we do expect the better racers to be very gentle on the course although they try hard and extend and there are no problems. As some of the amatuers grow up we slowly break them into the real rules. The rules are way to complicated for beginners and we need to be nice if possible.
Now that seems like it agrees with you. No, protest hearings in that type of casual race need to be fun if they happen and only to teach the person who messed up some. I bet the race committee had seen this same offense by the same person for a while and decided to finally chuck him. If so I hope they told him why regardless of whether it was DNF, DSQ or whatever. In the Laser Nationals everyone better know the rules but in a casual race get the judges and stuff out of the equation. Get other racers to do race committee and let them be creative if it evens the playing field for those we want in this sport.
Lacrosse, good God, lets be serious.
Ryan
July 27, 2006 at 9:47 am
How will all you soccer moms feel when some competitor on port T-bones you and says, “Whoops, sorry, it’s only a ‘fun’ race.”
Sure, it’s not fun to toss somebody out of a race, but the race committee did not have a choice. The boat didn’t sail the cource properly as defined in the rules by “the string” being outside all marks and in proper order.
If we, collectively, spent less time complaining about “great social injustices” on blogs like this, and more time helping new and/or young sailors learn the rules, we’d all be better off.
July 27, 2006 at 11:34 am
Peter,
On Long Island Sound we have a way to deal with RCs like this. Each year we hold an annual Moosehead awards luncheon. Over 240 RC members from around the Sound attend and are regaled with stories of RC foul ups. We’ve been holding this luncheon since 1941, and we award 10 trophies for screw ups and two for excellence (individual and team). The Baddies are various animal parts, with the Grand Prize being a full size moosehead that is required to be hung in the “winners” clubhouse in a prominent position for one year. The vast majority of winners take it with a sense of humor.
Do we have a reason to exist? Well in the first five years after we introduced team goodness award (about 10 years ago), the club that won the precious year’s Grand Moose, won the goodie.
We also have an area called cruelty to children. I couldn’t agree with you more. Giving kids lousy racing only turns them into tennis players or golfers. If you will e-mail me the details and the club, I can include them in my speech. We don’t award to any club that is based oputside LIS,. but we do include foulups from other areas under the auspices of “misery loves company”.
July 27, 2006 at 3:52 pm
“brown” is dead wrong in his interpretation of the RRS. Not only did the RC have a choice, it chose an action completely contrary to the rules. The rules require the RC to give every competitor who crosses the finish line in the direction from the last mark a finish. (See definition of “finish”.) The RC is allowed to protest a boat if, for example, it sees a violation in the racing area, but NOT to worsen a boat’s score without a hearing. (See 63.1 & A5.) This is an important principle: The Sailor’s Bill of Rights.
In the absence of an SI defining a gate, rounding both marks without going between them would be acceptable under 28.1, the “string rule”. (Who’s to say one of the marks isn’t an “offset mark”.) Advice to RCs: Don’t place gates if you don’t have rules for them.
As to whether a hearing would be more traumatic for a young racer than an RC-applied penalty, it depends on how the hearing is handled.
BTW, I volunteer two evenings per weeek coaching young sailors to race. I have to coach them in how to deal with RCs who know less about the rules than they do. This kind of incident is more common than you’ld hope.
When I teach race committee seminars, I emphasize that the RC should be as bound by & knowledgable of the rules (especially those rules that govern what they do) as the competitors. Race officers & judges set the example for respect for the rules.
July 27, 2006 at 5:06 pm
As a Senior Judge, I agree with the responses that say the young man did sail the course properly. all that is required is that you must round ONE of the marks. It is your choice as to whether you make a port or starboard rounding. The old “string test” and safety concerns as well as a published diagram would indicate that one should pass through the gate but if this sailor did not interfere with any boat while rounding both ends he should be given his finishing place. ( There being no time limit on seeking redress, it would be a good educational experience for all concerned to grant him a hearing.
as a Senior Judge
July 27, 2006 at 5:33 pm
All – if this was a big championship regatta, then there would be SIs and the gate would have been defined. This is a CASAUL race – so the Organizing Authority has placed the RC in a bad position – they were probably the rotated crew of the week, working off club SIs.
We don’t know – nor do we know about the SIs et al (seems to me like all the other competitors got it right – are we to penalize them for the fault of one? In fairness no). If everyone knew it was a gate, then the course wasn’t sailed correctly (look to 32.2c and App L 8.3 for the RRS words on gates). The only corrective action is for the competitor to go back and correct the mistake if he can by time limit expiration (TLE) if specified, or RAF. If it’s left to the RC alone – competitor doesn’t go back and sail the course correctly, then they have not finished – DNF(RC)/DSQ(PC). The RC can score DNF (A5) but not DSQ other than the few specified – DGM, BFD, etc. And since Rule 28 isn’t a Part II rule, 20% or two turns won’t exonerate it. RRS 28.1 is not a ‘protest’ item. Nobody is ‘penalizing’ or ‘making a score worse’ – the course wasn’t sailed so there IS NO SCORE. All we can definitely say is that the competitor got in a start… and wasn’t DSQ.
If it wasn’t a gate, then the competitor is fine. But – “methinks it were,” if everyone else got it right.
Another note – nothing says a club has to have its NOR or SIs posted on its website. They must be written, and provided to all competitors, but an info packet of last year’s functional SIs at the beginning of the season photocopied with a ’still applies’ will meet the need. if a competitor never read them, etc – that’s his own fault.
My beef with this (after getting my US SAILING RC certification, taking the test, on the water stuff, etc), is that while I wouldn’t get caught dead as a PRO for a race with no SIs, if the SIs (or club knowledge) defined the gate then the RC was right. Folks are lambasting the RC for keeping it fair for all the others who did it right – and they may have known the rules, and were at least out there volunteering time/effort. To those folks who are knocking it, I say:
1) Competitor assumed the risk (decision to participate is skipper’s)… RRS 4
2) Everyone else knew the local rules. He didn’t sail the course like the rest, and therefore still hasn’t finished by RRS 28.1. Obviously one boat did to validate the race.
3) By this point, every reasonable person would admit his time limit’s probably expired… so since he never went back and corrected he’s DNF.
4) Don’t like it? Then make it better rather than complaining about the RC. No NOR/SIs? Write ‘em to standard (use the US SAILING templates!!!) The RC doesn’t know the rules? Then why not get out there and be the RC who knows the rules?
This smacks too much of blaming the RC for ‘victimizing’ someone who was wrong (akin to the 62.1a request for redress) except that the preamble of 62.1 requires “no fault of her own.”
Finally – everyone’s forgetting 64.2 on Redress – that the PC will render a judgement that is “as fair as possible for all boats affected.” Clearly, allowing one boat to sail a course short a mark the others have to adhere to worsens their scores overall – along with potential tacking duels, mark roundig issues, etc that the other guy bypasses. Whether he knew it or not – he was wrong.
So – let’s slam the RC – pretty soon that boat won’t RC anymore… and then where are you? I’ll reiterate – want it better – then write the SIs and NORs for the RC/OA.
July 27, 2006 at 6:25 pm
When a boat with expierenced crew make a mistake and goes the wrong direction – the rest of us racers rightly gain.
When an inexpierenced crew makes the same mistake – we should console and teach.
Right is right, but let’s not be draconian about it!!
July 28, 2006 at 2:20 am
well this is a complete comedy of errors. you cannont have it both ways. No SI’s no race, the OA thought they would be cute to have a “fun and casual race, but really screwed the pooch in their effort. the kid, if he sailed the wrong course, should have had the balls to retire and admit his error.
back to the drawing board for this group.
And Senior Judge better check your statement on regarding redress. I’m telling your RAJ.
July 28, 2006 at 9:46 am
This question interests me greatly. For starters, this could not be considered a legitimate race even though there were boats racing and an RC managing the event. This is a perfect example of why the RRS must be followed and makes a great case for Race Officer training and certification.
Take a look at the “US Sailing Race Officer Study Questions” (available for download on their website), question #38 asks: For informal races, written sailing Instructions are not required. True or False? The answer is False, the RRS citation is 89.2 (a) The race committee SHALL publish written sailing instructions that conform to rule J2. The problem originally arose from the OA’s failure to follow 88.2 (a) The organizing authority SHALL publish a notice of race that conforms to rule J1.
Advice to the young sailor; Next time read the SI’s, if the RC doesn’t have written SI’s tell them to write them, then consider if you really want to race with this group, if you do race without SI’s you get the kind of race management that you get.
It is inexcusable for an OA not to write a NoR or the RC not to publish SI’s. The RRS Appendix K has a guideline for writting the NoR and Appendix L is a step by step guideline for publishing SI’s. Both are availble as a template from US Sailing or from ISAF, just download and fill in the blanks.
Without Sailing Instructions there are no rules. RRS J2.1 (1) …the race will be governed by the ‘rules’ as defined in ‘The Racing Rules of Sailing’. My club has a ‘Pirates Race’ comming up next week, The SI’s for this fun race start out: “This is a Pirates Race! There are NO Rules”, they are written, they will be published and they will be provided to the competitors before the warning signal
July 28, 2006 at 10:09 am
To -rt_/) is:
If a newcomer in a little league baseball game hit the ball and ran to third base instead of first while the defensive team fielded the ball and threw him out, what’s the call?
Are we afraid we’re going to hurt the kids feelings? Are these kids egos that fragile? I’d rather kindly teach someone the rules and let them shed all the tears they want instead of coddle them forever only to have the real world eventually smack them up side the head.
July 28, 2006 at 2:37 pm
I find the RRS for passing marks and obstructions lack specificity with respect to gates, and there are few appeals available to offer interpretation.
Clearly, when a gate is set, both marks are “marks of the course”, but I’m not sure it is illegal to round both of them. The old “string drawn tight” standard for sailing the course would not have shown this sailor did anything wrong. Someone better versed in the rules than I might comment.
Clearly the RC was out of bounds to DQ a competitor without some king of hearing – they at least owed him a “casual, fun” hearing. But if there had been a hearing, I would bet the decision would have been arbitrary at best due to the lack of detail on gate marks in the RRS.
July 29, 2006 at 10:16 am
The RRS do have some clear language about gates and how to sail them properly in Appendix L. All the RC has to do is to use this language in the SIs and there should be no confusion. It is then clearly illegal to round both marks.
August 1, 2006 at 2:40 pm
I just read the preamble to the question you sent me Peter:
http://peterhuston.wordpress.com/2006/07/28/insurance-fun-races/
My original answer focused solely on the Yacht Club and the Race Committee:
http://peterhuston.wordpress.com/2006/07/31/insurance-fun-races-part-2/
You brought up the question about the individual competitors boats in the preamble. You are absolutely correct that by eliminating protest hearings, it is doing a huge disservice to the boats that collide and have damages (or injuries). I have said it many times in my life, if there is damage or injuries ALWAYS protest (even if 720’s are done, or the guilty boat retires or anything else happens). You see, the protest form provides documentation from an independent panel. That documentation will be needed to settle an insurance claim, and if it goes beyond that, it will be needed in a court of law.
Without that completed protest form, just who is going to decide the outcome? Each of the insurance companies? No way! They will just fight each other and say it is not theirs to pay. They don’t have Racing Rules experts or any way to establish an independent panel to decide the outcome based on the Racing Rules of Sailing and call in witnesses.
Do you want to go to a court of law and teach a bench judge the racing rules of sailing? How about a jury? How much fun would it be to teach them sailing and the rules?
As you can see, the protest system is very much needed. Isn’t there something in the U.S. Constitution about having the right to a fair trial? The racing rules need to be modified so that a fair trial is always guaranteed.
August 7, 2006 at 3:57 am
Appendix L is a merely a guide for RCs on how to write SIs. It recommends wording that the RC should include in the SIs if a gate is to be used.
If the RC does not follow that advice – by not using App L 8.3, or by not publishing SIs at all – then the wording does not apply.
The boat evidently “finished” as defined in the rules, so the RC should reinstate her. No doubt an apology would be well received too!
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